Tech Help: Video Editing

[Dorvid Barnas]

(...continued from the kibblesmith entry thread.  It may be boring and I may sound dim.)

I have Vegas on an old computer and could theoretically follow the steps you gave me but I'd like to get it to work on FCP.
I will try what you suggested.  I've been exporting straight from the timeline using Quicktime Converter in FCP.  It never occurred to me import an already rendered avi file in to the timeline and re-render that. Is that how you save all of that space?

So simple, yet I never thought of it.  Is that a standard practice?  All of my freelance work (and I'm not very experienced) goes straight to DVD so I don't bother worrying about file sizes. But for online stuff, this could be the key I was looking for. 

Do you send the .mov/avi file to youtube in its original size (720x480) and let them shrink it to 320x240 or do you export it at 320x240?
Also, do you click the "add keyframes" option and if so, do you set it to every 24 frames or every 30? 
I've heard differing opinions on these specific issues. I've been winging it big time.   

That's all.  Thank you.  I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Kibblesmith]

(...continued from the kibblesmith entry thread.  It may be boring and I may sound dim.)

I have Vegas on an old computer and could theoretically follow the steps you gave me but I'd like to get it to work on FCP.
I will try what you suggested.  I've been exporting straight from the timeline using Quicktime Converter in FCP.  It never occurred to me import an already rendered avi file in to the timeline and re-render that. Is that how you save all of that space?

So simple, yet I never thought of it.  Is that a standard practice?  All of my freelance work (and I'm not very experienced) goes straight to DVD so I don't bother worrying about file sizes. But for online stuff, this could be the key I was looking for. 

Do you send the .mov/avi file to youtube in its original size (720x480) and let them shrink it to 320x240 or do you export it at 320x240?
Also, do you click the "add keyframes" option and if so, do you set it to every 24 frames or every 30? 
I've heard differing opinions on these specific issues. I've been winging it big time.   

That's all.  Thank you.  I'll let you know how it turns out.

I'm sort of self-taught, so I don't know if it's a standard practice. It's possible that there's massive generation loss between the two files when converting a rendered .avi to mpeg-2, but if so, it's not so severe that it's immediately visible to me.

When choosing between uploading the original to YouTube or resizing at 320x240, I usually just see how big the original is, and resize if necessary. In the case of my Best Show video, the file was already fewer than 100mb at 720x480.

I have never messed with the frame rate, except experimentally when encoding something I taped off a film projector, to see if 24 fps would look more natural than 29.97 (it didn't).

Let me know if anything else comes up. If you need a more focused resource, there's a lot of great digital video forums and tutorials out there that occasionally save me some guess and check.

[Dorvid Barnas]

Thank you - I have checked on dvinfo.net and asked folks on a couple of other places, but I get some contradictory info, and no one really posts any video to show their results. Also, the mandatory real name thing on dvinfo.net gives me the willies.

I decided to ask you cuz you clearly know of what you speak and this is a cozy little community.
It's also very encouraging to know you were also self-taught.
I think I'm all set for now.
Thanks again.

[bookem_dan-o]

One of the secrets of getting good quality video on YouTube is to NOT let YouTube do the compression on your behalf (e.g., from your uploaded, uncompressed AVI/MOV file).

If you do the compression on your side first, AS AN FLV FILE (that's the secret), YouTube will not recompress the video when you upload it to their servers.

So you can tweak the compression settings to your hearts content, using the encoding tool of your choice (i very much doubt YouTube does multipass VBR encoding to FLV, which is why most videos look like ass), and as long as your file is under 100MB, you're gold, jerry..gold!

[Dorvid Barnas]

After looking up what an flv file is, I see that it's not one of the options in quicktime converter/FCP or compressor.
Do I need some type of Flash application to try it? I've got zero history w/ Flash.

Thanks, book-em.

[bookem_dan-o]

Also, if you're working in FCP, don't waste your time/harddrive space/cpu cycles importing and re-exporting AVI files and all that nonsense. FCP does an absolutely terrible job at resizing video, anyways.

If you're ready to export your FCP timeline to some other format, make sure you first render EVERYTHING in the timeline that needs to be rendered (Sequence menu>Render All>Both (make sure ALL the checkboxes are checked).

Then, instead of exporting out an uncompressed Quicktime file, make a Quicktime REFERENCE Movie instead (File>Export>Quicktime Movie ... NOT "Quicktime Conversion"). Make sure the little dropdown menu at the bottom is set to "current settings", "include audio and video", and "recompress all frames" and "make movie self contained" are checked OFF.

Doing it this way is more efficient and diskspace/time friendly, because a Quicktime Reference movie is just a tiny little file that points to the original source media & renders from wherever it was saved from.  That way you don't have to manage big honking uncompressed selfcontained files of your timelines if you want to process them in other applications.

Lowering your frame rate is one of the best things you can do to achieve sharper images at equivalent filesizes. Unless your video has a lot of fast action or quick cuts in it, you dont need to encode at 30 or 29.97 fps. That bandwidth (or broadwidth, as Andy Breckman calls it) is put to better use towards the image quality of the video itself.

[bookem_dan-o]

After looking up what a .flv file is, I see that it's not one of the options in quicktime converter/FCP or compressor.
Do I need some type of Flash application to try it?

Thanks, book-em.

Yeah, there is no native FLV export support in Quicktime.

If you have the actual Flash application, it comes with a Flash Encoder. I'm not sure how good it is, since I use a program called Episode Pro to encode Flash video. It's a tad bit pricey though. I'm sure there's cheaper or even free) alternatives though. Check VersionTracker or MacUpdate and im sure you'll be able to find one.

While you're at it, if you havent already, download and install Perian, which lets you play back FLV (as well as DivX and Xvid) files right inside Quicktime Player.

[bookem_dan-o]

Oh jeez..how can I forget one of my favorite video encoing tools, VisualHub?

I forgot that it does Flash encoding, and it's only 23 clams.

You should own VisualHub anyways, because it's just fucking awesome.

[Dorvid Barnas]

Then, instead of exporting out an uncompressed Quicktime file, make a Quicktime REFERENCE Movie instead (File>Export>Quicktime Movie ... NOT "Quicktime Conversion"). Make sure the little dropdown menu at the bottom is set to "current settings", "include audio and video", and "recompress all frames" and "make movie self contained" are checked OFF.

Doing it this way is more efficient and diskspace/time friendly, because a Quicktime Reference movie is just a tiny little file that points to the original source media & renders from wherever it was saved from.  That way you don't have to manage big honking uncompressed selfcontained files of your timelines if you want to process them in other applications.

Another major revleation for me.  This rules.  I always thought the "make movie self-contained" made the file smaller, not bigger.  That's something I mis-read a couple of years ago and has no doubt been screwing me up ever since. 

I'm gonna buy that VisualHub right now.  Thanks!

[Dorvid Barnas]

Book-em Mel-O  -

I followed your advice and bought Visual Hub and used it to convert my FCP movie file in to a Flash file.
It's certainly an improvement over my previous methods, but still not where I'd like it to be.

I used "double-pass", "raw flv" format and "go nuts" quality, and got this 65MB file. 
I didn't export at 320x240 for this draft; I did for another version and it looked worse.
[youtube=425,350]MLqGlvujY08[/youtube]

It was very hazy when I taped it last night, but it's not as sharp as I think it could be, even for youtube. 
Anything you would've done differently?
Should I try manually entering a higher bit rate?  Apply a sharpen filter? Mess with the frame rate?

Or should I just get my own website and forget about this youtube-compression nonsense forever?
Thanks for the help, sir.

[kenkwan]

Dammit! I always forget about Fort Reno. Last night was the Federal Reserve bands, right? How was it?

[Dorvid Barnas]

Yep, it was 2/3 Federal Reserve - Greenland, Statehood (my buddies in the video), and Kittyhawk.

There was, unfortunately, a mugging out in the woods, and as such there were about a dozen cop cars on the hill during the show, but otherwise it was a lovely time.  The video makes it look like there was 4 people there, but it was probably about 400 - a great turnout considering the insane heat.

[bookem_dan-o]

Book-em Mel-O  -

I followed your advice and bought Visual Hub and used it to convert my FCP movie file in to a Flash file.
It's certainly an improvement over my previous methods, but still not where I'd like it to be.

I used "double-pass", "raw flv" format and "go nuts" quality, and got this 65MB file. 
I didn't export at 320x240 for this draft; I did for another version and it looked worse.


It was very hazy when I taped it last night, but it's not as sharp as I think it could be, even for youtube. 
Anything you would've done differently?
Should I try manually entering a higher bit rate?  Apply a sharpen filter? Mess with the frame rate?

Or should I just get my own website and forget about this youtube-compression nonsense forever?
Thanks for the help, sir.

I dunno...I have to say, that "for YouTube", that clip looks pretty good. Of course, I have no frame of reference to compare it to (i.e. the original source), but to my eyes, that's a pretty good encode.

I noticed that YouTube actually scales the playback window to a larger size than your source file. I uploaded a test FLV that I encoded with VisualHub, and it looks great when playing it in Quicktime Player or in a browser with 1:1 scaling...but for some reason when youTube displays it, it looks much crappier. And it doesn't seem like youTube is actually recompressing it, because if i download the file back off of youTube using something like Tubesock, the actual file looks great.

So i guess this is a roundabout way of saying "I have no friggen clue what's wrong here"

[Dorvid Barnas]

Thanks a bunch for looking at that, Mel.

It ain't great but it's a step forward - I'll live with it until I get a website.
I shouldn't have youtube hosting stuff like my demo reel, anyway - that's bush league. (or rather, my demo reel needs all the help it can get.)

Thanks again. You're a prince.

[John K]

I noticed that YouTube actually scales the playback window to a larger size than your source file.

For some reason, the YouTube tag defaults to 425x350, which forces the video to scale up. If you click the tag and then change the numbers in it to

[yöutube=320,260]

(add 20 to the height for the YouTube controller), then it should play back at 1:1, or at least closer to it.

[youtube=320,260]MLqGlvujY08[/youtube]

A couple of things make me suspicious, though. It's letterboxed, but probably ought to be full frame. If it was exported at 720x480, those are non-square pixels, whereas 320x240 is a square pixel size. Try exporting at 640x480 (a square pixel size), or when you're encoding, see if there's an option to the effect of "don't keep pixel aspect ratio," or "scale to fit."

Also, this particular file appears to be about 6.5mb as opposed to 65mb. If you did indeed upload a 65mb file, then it may have been re-encoded, or I'm just looking at the wrong thing. But 65mb is pretty big for something like this, especially since there's no camera movement, no cuts, and the only things that are moving are pretty small in frame. If it's 6.5mb, then you can definitely up the bitrate (try 2x what you originally used) when you encode.

Hope that helps.