FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Smelodies on December 05, 2010, 02:53:50 AM
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What's your take?
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James Bond villain.
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"Shady character".
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I think he is ok, unless...he is found guilty of rape, then he deserves to rot in jail. He shouldn't go to jail because he published top secret documents and scooped every major media outlet. Nor should the kid that allegedly gave Wikileaks the information. I think we put too much faith in government organizations to act in our best interests...in some cases transparency should be considered an asset, not a disadvantage. Gossiping like high school students at a sock hop shouldn't be the accepted standard for international diplomacy. Although, I do agree that Kim Jong il is fat.
Perhaps an interesting read for some, Chomsky on many topics including Assange...
http://chomsky.info/interviews/20101130.htm (http://chomsky.info/interviews/20101130.htm)
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I don't want to jump to conclusions -- the last thing I want to do is defend a rapist -- and he's probably a narcissistic asshole. That said, though, paying off ex-girlfriends to raise suspicions is exactly the kind of thing that intelligence agencies do. And once they get him in Sweden -- where, it should be noted, he hasn't been charged with anything, they just want him for questioning -- he can be extradited to the US, where he really has broken the law.
What really disturbs me about this is that everybody just seems to accept that all this government secrecy is okay in a democracy, and that the guy who helped leak it should be punished, even assassinated. Isn't the whole idea that government should be transparent, and we the people should hold it accountable?
I'm also pretty psyched about this Bank of America document dump. Fuck them a million times over.
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What really disturbs me about this is that everybody just seems to accept that all this government secrecy is okay in a democracy, and that the guy who helped leak it should be punished, even assassinated. Isn't the whole idea that government should be transparent, and we the people should hold it accountable?
I tend to believe Gore Vidal is correct when he says we stopped being a democracy in 1957.
History of the National Security State with Gore Vidal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kAGHBKwFLE#ws)
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I read that he's actually being charged with having sex without a condom: http://slatest.slate.com/id/2276690/ (http://slatest.slate.com/id/2276690/)
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I read that he's actually being charged with having sex without a condom: http://slatest.slate.com/id/2276690/ (http://slatest.slate.com/id/2276690/)
Incredible...seriously?!
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I don't understand why people are more fired up about some dude with a website than about the Army giving unrestricted access to SIPRNet to some kid. I hear if you follow @USArmy on twitter they'll DM you what China really feels about North Korea.
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I don't see why his being guilty of rape entails that he should be forbidden from sharing the information he has.
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"I have to perform this brain surgery or the patient will die!"
"You should have thought of that before you raped those women!"
"Hey, can we talk about this after the surgery?"
"No, both of you are going to suffer for this!"
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"Hey, I have to go to jail. Can I first train a replacement to perform the surgery that no one else but me can perform?"
"No, all of you will suffer for this!"
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"Hey, I have to go to jail. Can I first train a replacement to perform the surgery that no one else can perform but me?"
"Sure!"
"I meant leak information that incriminates you."
"No way! All of you will suffer!"
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I don't see why his being guilty of rape entails that he should be forbidden from sharing the information he has.
I believe the situation is being used to discredit him, and as Jason G pointed out, this may be a move to ensure he is in a country that has an extradition treaty with the US. I guess the US and the UK have no such agreement? Well, I don't think they can charge him with treason. I've heard him speak on a few occasions, he seems genuine.
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I think the UK and US have an extradition treaty, but he's hiding out somewhere. I don't know why they haven't found him yet. Maybe the British authorities going after him might violate some cherished illusion of democracy or British national sovereignty? It might just be incompetence. A reporter friend of mine spent a long time in Baluchistan and said everyone there seemed to know where Osama bin Laden lived, and someone even offered to take her to visit him (she said no).
I think you have to be a US citizen to be charged with treason in the US, no? But he can be charged with the Espionage Act of 1917, and even if he isn't found guilty the government can do lots of terrible things to him in the interim. It remains to be seen whether the the US would assassinate/torture/extraordinarily render a world-famous, well-educated white European, but there are plenty of other things they can do to make his life miserable.
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What's your take?
His old haircut made him look like an old lady.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Julian_Assange_26C3.jpg/540px-Julian_Assange_26C3.jpg)
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What would all of you think if he was killed or imprisoned?
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His old haircut made him look like an old lady.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Julian_Assange_26C3.jpg/540px-Julian_Assange_26C3.jpg)
I'm assuming he changed that after seeing Meg Whitman stole his look?
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/wikileaks_assange_will_release_encrypted_TMdRdOm0JfvW4Z9rjWwLQO (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/wikileaks_assange_will_release_encrypted_TMdRdOm0JfvW4Z9rjWwLQO)
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I chose #2. I am fascinated by the possible transformation of diplomatic relations.
As well as the general dissolving of the public/private information barrier.
Is Stieg Larson involved in this?
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I think he crossed the line. There's no reason that the public needs to know most of the things he reveals. Just a few months ago, we were trying to persuade a church not to burn Qur'ans to avoid unnecessary deaths. People are going to be killed over these leaks and that's horrific. At the same time, if our government didn't have a history of deceit and secrecy this might not have happened. But, Assange crossed a line publishing documents that can only hurt people.
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I think he crossed the line. There's no reason that the public needs to know most of the things he reveals. Just a few months ago, we were trying to persuade a church not to burn Qur'ans to avoid unnecessary deaths. People are going to be killed over these leaks and that's horrific. At the same time, if our government didn't have a history of deceit and secrecy this might not have happened. But, Assange crossed a line publishing documents that can only hurt people.
Mario Vargas Llosa:
He said it was "paradoxical'' that it was the most democratic states that were "the most vulnerable to this kind of exposure,'' while "dictatorships are saved'' precisely because of the lack of openness in their regimes.
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Is there any evidence that anyone has been hurt or killed by the leaks? I know that the Iraq and Afghanistan logs were scrubbed of at-risk names by the NYT and The Guardian, and that WikiLeaks approached the Department of Defense about doing the same thing but were rebuffed. Of course politicians, generals, etc. are going to say that there will be a great human cost to this, but they say all kinds of bullshit -- and really, the policies exposed by WikiLeaks (which pretty much everyone knew about already anyway) have hurt and killed a lot more people.
If I'm wrong, I'd be interested to hear about it. I certainly don't think informants or collaborators should be exposed and killed. But I do find it disturbing that none of us as individuals have any privacy anymore but if government or business elites are exposed it's the end of the world.
Thought this was interesting, from The Guardian:
"much of the secret material shows rather little difference between what the US says publicly and what these papers show privately.
Hillary Clinton has condemned the leaks, as she must; yet in general the US has responded maturely. Not a shining city on a hill, perhaps,
but still a pretty impressive place, shrouding itself in some layers of unnecessary secrecy. US defence secretary Robert Gates said this
week: "Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes. Consequences for US foreign policy? I think fairly modest." In the long run, he may be right."
More at http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/01/student-finance-mischief-labour-libdems (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/01/student-finance-mischief-labour-libdems)
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Do any of you guys listen to Dave Emory? He sure talks a lot.
http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-724-wiki-of-the-damned (http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-724-wiki-of-the-damned)
Also, don't know if anybody remembers my Dave Emory drinking game. On the show when I suggested he be Tom's marathon co-host, I suggested listeners throw back a shot everytime Emory says "milieu". Check out the last line in this blurb.
http://spitfirelist.com/news/julian-assange-conneced-to-darpa-hacker (http://spitfirelist.com/news/julian-assange-conneced-to-darpa-hacker)
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Julian Assange didn't leak anything! He has a website that publishes what other people leak!
This is really important. If there wasn't a wikileaks there'd be something else. It's impossible to control data.
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Daniel Ellsberg making some comments about Wikileaks...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1pTl8KdREk&feature=player_embedded# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1pTl8KdREk&feature=player_embedded#)
Pentagon Whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg on Wikileaks Iraq War Docs (Part 2 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJ0AUs09jM&feature=related#)
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Overall I think the existence of Wikileaks is a good thing. I just would have much preferred he dropped the Bank stuff before releasing this. Now he's been arrested, we may see how and if his 'dead man's switch' works.
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I bet the dead man's switch is comparable to chapters 2 - 30 of Weirdos Exposed
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OH SNAP
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dude's a rapist, not a racer
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I bet the dead man's switch is comparable to chapters 2 - 30 of Weirdos Exposed
It does appear his bluff has been called.
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Overall I think the existence of Wikileaks is a good thing. I just would have much preferred he dropped the Bank stuff before releasing this. Now he's been arrested, we may see how and if his 'dead man's switch' works.
You think it's helpful to release information on all the stockpiles of emergency fuel, weapons, and safety areas, as he's now threatening to do?
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Overall I think the existence of Wikileaks is a good thing. I just would have much preferred he dropped the Bank stuff before releasing this. Now he's been arrested, we may see how and if his 'dead man's switch' works.
You think it's helpful to release information on all the stockpiles of emergency fuel, weapons, and safety areas, as he's now threatening to do?
That sounds like a bad idea to me, but let's wait and see what he actually does. If I were in his situation right now, I might say all kinds of crazy shit.
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This (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307137/Supporters-dismissed-rape-accusations-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange--women-involved-tell-different-story.html) rather breathless account of the nonrape left me, well, a little breathless.
I wish Assange's dead man's switch were linked to an actual bomb that wouldt put us all out of our misery.
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dude's a rapist, not a racer
So far, the news is indicating that he is not a rapist and nor guilty of sexual assault.
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Read the article I linked to above.
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I don't like that he's being referred to as a rapist or the act as sexual assault in headlines when it seems like neither term is accurate.
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It is disgusting.
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Oh, come on, he's got to be completely discredited for the good of the world's future! With him out of the way, ambassadors will be free to go back to their vital business of telling bitchy stories and casting asides about the character of the person they were just embracing on a live international press feed.
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There must be so many people so happy right now to have this scapegoat dropped in their laps. I mean, it feels like forever since a celebrity stepped up and died juicily or some other freak show debuted. Plus Wikileaks provides the perfect excuse to clamp down on the Internet for our own good. It's a Christmas gift that just keeps on giving!
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At first I thought Dave said the Dead Man's Switch WAS Weirdo's Exposed, which would have been exciting.
Incidentally, I don't think the arrest was the manhunt it's being framed as in the media; according to Democracy Now, it was voluntary and negotiated by his lawyers.
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Our ole pal Hitchens chimes in:
http://www.slate.com/id/2276857/ (http://www.slate.com/id/2276857/)
I wish they could debate each other on the merits of the project.
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Assange strikes me as megalomaniacal as well, but I still think wikileaks is a good idea.
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Oh, I have little doubt Assange is an asshole. Just not Public Enemy No. 1.
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Oh, I have little doubt Assange is an asshole. Just not Public Enemy No. 1.
Speaking of assholes:
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201012080009 (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201012080009)
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Yes, some assholes are better than others.
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on OkCupid
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/13/julian-assanges-ok-c.html (http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/13/julian-assanges-ok-c.html)
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I knew Assange reminded me of somebody...
(http://www.bscreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/chris-dane-owens-300x270.jpg)
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I love how he dresses like Ryan from The Office. It's just perfect.
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on OkCupid
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/13/julian-assanges-ok-c.html (http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/13/julian-assanges-ok-c.html)
Just about what I would have expected. Oof.
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Ugh. This guy doesn't need the government to ruin his credibility, he's doing ok on his own. I'm having difficulty equating Wikileaks and it's "message/good intentions"(?!) with their unfortunate choice of "lighting rod/frontman".
That picture is making me sick.
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A comment on BoingBoing:
No question that the guy is a douche. But the US is starting to stink and could use a good douche right now, if you know what I mean.
I do know what you mean, Xenu!
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The US government vs. Julian Assange vs. Amazon/Visa/etc vs. Anonymous
Four-way tie for last?
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I knew Assange reminded me of somebody...
(http://www.bscreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/chris-dane-owens-300x270.jpg)
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n485/blahblahblah3456/GB2.jpg)
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No matter what, though, I and others in my family feel a special kinship with Assange because his last name rhymes with ours. Dumb, I know; still, allegiances have been formed on lesser bases.
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You think this dude's days are numbered?
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"Today we've received a threat by the United Kingdom, a clear and written threat that they could storm our embassy in London if Ecuador refuses to hand in Julian Assange," Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino told reporters.
"We are not a British colony," he added in an angry statement after a meeting with President Rafael Correa.
Ecuador will announce its decision regarding Assange's asylum request on Thursday at 7 a.m. (1200 GMT), he added, amid media speculation that the government has already decided to grant Assange asylum.
Former computer hacker Assange, who enraged Washington in 2010 when his WikiLeaks website published secret U.S. diplomatic cables, is wanted in Sweden to face trial for rape.
Assange has been taking refuge in the Ecuadorean embassy in London since June 19. The Australian anti-secrecy campaigner says he fears he could be bundled to the United States where his life would be at risk.
Even if Ecuador gives him asylum, it is difficult to see how the WikiLeaks boss could physically leave the closely watched embassy and head to an airport without being arrested by British police.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/us/politics/assange-timed-wikileaks-release-of-democratic-emails-to-harm-hillary-clinton.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/us/politics/assange-timed-wikileaks-release-of-democratic-emails-to-harm-hillary-clinton.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share)
Julian Assange on why he leaked emails: Trump would be "unpredictable;" Clinton would be predictable - in a bad way.