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The Best Show on WFMU => Mike And His Ilk. => Topic started by: cavorting with nudists on May 04, 2011, 10:48:43 AM

Title: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: cavorting with nudists on May 04, 2011, 10:48:43 AM
No, the subject heading refers not to Massa's Tavern but to the new Herzog documentary, the first 3-D movie I'm actually looking forward to.  But is it too "arty" a theme to really let Herzog's freak flag fly?  FWIW, two of my favorite movie reviewers liked it very much, but disagree about Herzog's voiceover: J. Hoberman wishes he'd just let the images work and STFU, while Anthony Lane really enjoys his sublimely nutty lucubrations.

Here's a pretty good short interview w/ the director where he talks about it and also his next project, about prisoners on Death Row: http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/04/werner_herzog.html (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/04/werner_herzog.html)
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Paul DeLouisiana on May 04, 2011, 12:16:16 PM
Looking forward to seeing it this weekend. I like the Herzog voiceovers.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: cavorting with nudists on May 06, 2011, 01:58:29 PM
"Are we today, possibly, the crocodiles who look back into an abyss of time?" I think this might make a good signature phrase for Mike, once "Don't you know I'm loco?" wears out its welcome.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: andrew in philadelphia on May 06, 2011, 03:48:47 PM
Not sure I'd want to see it without the Herzog voiceovers.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Paul DeLouisiana on May 11, 2011, 08:06:08 PM
Just saw it and didn't love it. I didn't think it was bad by any stretch. But the print showing in Philly isn't 3D so that aspect was absent from my viewing. I didn't know that until I went to enter the theater and asked where the glasses were. It is very yinteresting and worth seeing in the theater.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Rick in Salt Lake on May 11, 2011, 08:10:50 PM
It's opening here in Salt Lake on Friday. I plan on seeing it then, but I'm unsure if the version shown is in 3-D. Is the 3-D really that big an addition? If I find another theater that's showing the 3-D version should I opt for that one instead?
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: cavorting with nudists on May 11, 2011, 09:09:57 PM
I am strongly against 3D in principle, but yes, in this case it is pretty crucial. The remarks Herzog has made about how it had to be in 3D do not, in this case, happen to be bullshit. It's really a meditation on a very otherworldly space, and the bulges and concavities and formations are what give it its character.  I would imagine it would be almost flat-out boring in 2D.

The film is sedate by Herzog's standards, not very nutty until the last two minutes (great final shot), but I found it entrancing.

One thing that really impressed me about the crazy motherfuckers who did those paintings--apparently they only went into the cave for the specific purposes of lighting a fire, partying, and painting animals on the wall---and there were bears and shit in there! That's dedication to your art!
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Rick in Salt Lake on May 11, 2011, 09:29:18 PM
One thing that really impressed me about the crazy motherfuckers who did those paintings--apparently they only went into the cave for the specific purposes of lighting a fire, partying, and painting animals on the wall---and there were bears and shit in there! That's dedication to your art!

There are few things that make me say "man, that's bad-ass", but man, that's bad ass...

I'll see if it opens here in some place with the 3-D version. I was just curious because with the setting and all I was wondering if the 3-D would mute the colors too much to make a movie filmed in a cave (for only two hours a day as I understand, right?) too dark to be that watchable. Granted, Herzog knows what he's doing, but I just couldn't help but wonder...

I can only imagine the musings Werner busts out. Some of the staements he makes are remarks only he could say without sounding like a pretentious jackoff...
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Paul DeLouisiana on May 11, 2011, 09:58:10 PM
There was this group of girls in the theater that laughed (like they 'understand' Herzog's sense of humor and no one else does) loudly at a few things that weren't very funny. It sucks that Herzog is now 'that crazy guy' the everyone takes pride in themselves for knowing about.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Rick in Salt Lake on May 12, 2011, 05:50:52 PM
There was this group of girls in the theater that laughed (like they 'understand' Herzog's sense of humor and no one else does) loudly at a few things that weren't very funny. It sucks that Herzog is now 'that crazy guy' the everyone takes pride in themselves for knowing about.

Wow! They must be cool... Then they must know who David Lynch is as well, huh?

It's too bad they're about fifteen years or so too late to get on the Peter Greenaway bandwagon...
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: B_Buster on May 13, 2011, 07:07:24 PM
Saw it this afternoon. Good stuff, but don't waste your time if it's not in 3D. It may be the only movie I've seen that's actually enhanced by the 3D and it isn't just a disappointing up sale gimmick.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: cavorting with nudists on May 13, 2011, 08:41:56 PM
So Mike, where do you stand on the are-we-crocodiles-today question?
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: B_Buster on May 14, 2011, 04:27:20 AM
Obviously, we're worse than crocodiles. Has a crocodile ever invented a nuclear bomb?
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: dave from knoxville on May 14, 2011, 09:08:51 PM
Obviously, we're worse than crocodiles. Has a crocodile ever invented a nuclear bomb?

Not as far as we KNOW.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Rick in Salt Lake on May 17, 2011, 08:53:31 PM
Saw it this afternoon. Good stuff, but don't waste your time if it's not in 3D. It may be the only movie I've seen that's actually enhanced by the 3D and it isn't just a disappointing up sale gimmick.

I saw it last Friday afternoon in 3-D on the advice of this forum. All I can say is you are absolutely correct. The way 3-D shows off the textures of the cave walls is quite stunning... But, man oh man, some of that art is so gorgeous...


There was this group of girls in the theater that laughed (like they 'understand' Herzog's sense of humor and no one else does) loudly at a few things that weren't very funny. It sucks that Herzog is now 'that crazy guy' the everyone takes pride in themselves for knowing about.

Lemme guess: They laughed at Herzog's crocodile speculation at the very end, right?


Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Chris L on June 07, 2011, 08:27:30 AM
Herzog was on Colbert last night:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/388586/june-06-2011/werner-herzog (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/388586/june-06-2011/werner-herzog)
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: amazingjourney on June 10, 2011, 05:51:21 PM
Just saw this... really great. It was actually the first Herzog movie I've ever seen (not much of a film guy) and I loved the armchair philosophy voiceover. From what I had read I was expecting it to be so much more overbearing than it was. I also loved the crocodiles. Stroszek next, right?
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: cavorting with nudists on June 10, 2011, 10:06:43 PM
Mike might disagree, but I would say Stroszek is a bit of a cold bath if you're not really used to Herzog at his Herzoggiest.  Among his fiction films, I would say Aguirre, Fitzcarraldo, or even The Mystery of Kaspar Hauser strike a steadier balance between deep Herzogism and "normal" entertainment values. Among his documentaries, if you liked Cave I'm sure you'd like Grizzly Man.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: amazingjourney on June 10, 2011, 11:33:37 PM
I was joking about the Stroszek. I figured it would be a big jump from Cave to diving into that one.

But a serious thanks for the recs of the other fiction stuff!
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: placeholder on June 30, 2011, 10:00:40 AM
Finally got a chance to see this last weekend and was very much into it.

I think seeing it in 3-D is essential for immersion's sake.

Loved the crocodiles and the perfumier.

By the by, Stroszek is my favorite movie. It's a big jump in tone from Cave of Forgotten Dreams, but it is incredible.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Key Loser on June 30, 2011, 11:49:20 AM
Finally got a chance to see this last weekend and was very much into it.

I think seeing it in 3-D is essential for immersion's sake.

Loved the crocodiles and the perfumier.

By the by, Stroszek is my favorite movie. It's a big jump in tone from Cave of Forgotten Dreams, but it is incredible.

just don't listen to the Idiot after watching it

a recipe for disaster
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: placeholder on June 30, 2011, 12:42:48 PM
Finally got a chance to see this last weekend and was very much into it.

I think seeing it in 3-D is essential for immersion's sake.

Loved the crocodiles and the perfumier.

By the by, Stroszek is my favorite movie. It's a big jump in tone from Cave of Forgotten Dreams, but it is incredible.

just don't listen to the Idiot after watching it

a recipe for disaster

No fooling.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: JBillington on July 01, 2011, 02:08:16 PM
There was this group of girls in the theater that laughed (like they 'understand' Herzog's sense of humor and no one else does) loudly at a few things that weren't very funny. It sucks that Herzog is now 'that crazy guy' the everyone takes pride in themselves for knowing about.

I saw this, in the UK, in an audience largely of older people (the cinema has a pensioner deal on the evening I saw it), and they were howling with laughter all the way through, as if the people being interviewed were selected for their comedy value. It was quite irritating. I would hate to have seen Fata Morgana witht them. I mean, Bad Lieutenant and My Son, My Son.... are obviously played for some laughs, but Herzog's German films, though wry, are largely short on belly laughs. It does seem that Herzog's revival has coincided with him becoming some kind of eccentric figure of fun.

I 'got into' Herzog after reading about Fitzcarraldo in about 1995, and the general attitude then was that his career had collapsed following that and now he was reduced to making TV documentaries. Although I don't think they are his best work, I think it's been amazing that his career has revived to the point that I have been able to see three new feature films theatrically in a 12 month period.

I didn't see it 3D, and can't see how it would have benefitted that much. I only really felt that the film became 'immersed' in the paintings in the final reels anyhow, most of it is produced in a similar way to his 90/00's TV docs like Wings Of Hope or The White Diamond.

Actually, the White Diamond would be great in 3D...

Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: buffcoat on February 14, 2012, 09:13:38 PM
Watching this as my first Herzog work.  I happen to enjoy his voiceovers, but it does remind me just a bit of Woody Harrelson's East German filmmaker on Sprockets.

I will commit to taking him entirely seriously for the rest of the film.
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: Rick in Salt Lake on February 18, 2012, 01:40:38 PM
... I'm sure you'd like Grizzly Man.

Oh, man... I saw "Grizzly Man" in a local theater. I still remember the nervous laughter from the audience when he spoke into the camer then reached over and petted a fucking grizzly bear on the snot. It's easily the single most insane thing I think I've ever seen in a movie. The closest I would ever come is the closest I have come to seeing a grizzly: Spying them through binoculars at Yellowstone...
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: buffcoat on May 23, 2013, 10:41:37 AM
The thing that amazed me about Grizzly Man

* SPOILER *

is that he DID get away with how he lived among and treated the bears. He never even got hurt until he broke all his own rules, staying too late and being among the unfamiliar and much more desperate late-season bears. Apparently he WAS able to live among the bears as long as he stuck to the (still crazy) way that he'd been doing it.

Also, I watched him talk for about an hour and ten minutes - did he ever say anything of import? In our expanded ability to talk and communicate, have we lost the ability to actually say anything?
Title: Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
Post by: fonpr on May 25, 2013, 04:42:23 PM
In our expanded ability to talk and communicate, have we lost the ability to actually say anything?
Apparently.