Author Topic: Prog Rock primers for FOTs  (Read 4490 times)

nec13

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2015, 07:44:23 PM »
What about Beefheart? Or Zappa? They're not considered "prog rock" artists, but they're arguably more progressive than any of the aforementioned bands.
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fonpr

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2015, 08:36:57 PM »

 Cale's "Vintage Violence" is not prog. At ALL.
Good. I played it today and thought it sounded kind of country.

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peter falk

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2015, 09:59:24 AM »


All the early GENESIS records made me a fan ("Nursery Cryme" through "A Trick of the Tail"), then SOFT MACHINE clicked, especially "Third" and "Fourth," after years in the jazz desert. Canterbury stuff is a trip, but probably not the most easily accessible.


Soft Machine Fourth is one of my all time favorite records but I always assumed it was outside of the prog canon because of how jazzy it is. 

JonFromMaplewood

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2015, 11:56:58 AM »
I've never considered krautrock and prog rock to have many similarities, so seeing CAN dropped in here is surprising to me. Krautrock in general might have taken a lot of inspiration from prog but I don't see them as mutual genres past a few, fleeting stylistic overlaps. Krautrock in general is so much more freewheeling and rhythmic, while I think of prog as generally kind of more concerned with form. Does that make sense? Prog can easily be stuffy and self-interested while krautrock seems to just let it loose.


Interesting points. Maybe the connection between prog and krautrock (I hate that name) is more superficial, like (1) songs are whatever length they need to be and (2) songs often have multiple sections, movements, etc. Not always, of course, but often.
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JeffertonFromTX

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2015, 01:05:18 PM »
Close to the Edge was the first prog album I ever heard and it made me a fan for life. I tell anyone who will listen to get that album.
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Mike Desert

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2015, 02:02:18 PM »
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josh c

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2015, 12:53:57 PM »
What about Beefheart? Or Zappa? They're not considered "prog rock" artists, but they're arguably more progressive than any of the aforementioned bands.

This is really splitting hairs on how to define prog, I think. Arguing someone is "more progressive" than the others means that, like, Diamandas Galas is more progressive than YES because they're still using traditional time signatures and a guitar/bass/drums combo, even if they're dropping past the verse/chorus/verse form.


All the early GENESIS records made me a fan ("Nursery Cryme" through "A Trick of the Tail"), then SOFT MACHINE clicked, especially "Third" and "Fourth," after years in the jazz desert. Canterbury stuff is a trip, but probably not the most easily accessible.


Soft Machine Fourth is one of my all time favorite records but I always assumed it was outside of the prog canon because of how jazzy it is. 

I think it's probably where the first big wave of artists pushed up against their influences and started to go more into exploring one influence over the other? That feels incoherent, but, like, Soft Machine drops so much on that record and just goes for it. But all of the Canterbury stuff I've heard (Soft Machine, Gong) seem much more willing to incorporate jazz into the mix and when I think prog I guess RUSH would never cop to having Don Cherry and Ornette Coleman as influences. I guess more thorough definitions are just needed?

I feel like I don't have a TON of knowledge on prog (certainly not as much as the poster talking about MAGMA), but to me it boils down to, like:

THIS IS PROG:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne317y_eOYs

THIS IS KRAUTROCK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=390Nz5Gm8Hw&index=12&list=RD8QLL2j8ZtxE

I don't know. They're so different to my ears.

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John Junk

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2015, 02:25:04 PM »
I'm a fan of From Genesis to Revelation.

Once you've been inculcated to Yes, the first two sides of Tales from Topographic Oceans are killer.

I also really love this band Dzyan and their album Electric Silence


Future Days by Can is the greatest, but yeah I think of it as Krautrock, not prog.
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peter falk

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2015, 01:23:04 PM »

I think it's probably where the first big wave of artists pushed up against their influences and started to go more into exploring one influence over the other? That feels incoherent, but, like, Soft Machine drops so much on that record and just goes for it. But all of the Canterbury stuff I've heard (Soft Machine, Gong) seem much more willing to incorporate jazz into the mix and when I think prog I guess RUSH would never cop to having Don Cherry and Ornette Coleman as influences. I guess more thorough definitions are just needed?

I feel like I don't have a TON of knowledge on prog (certainly not as much as the poster talking about MAGMA), but to me it boils down to, like:

THIS IS PROG:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne317y_eOYs

THIS IS KRAUTROCK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=390Nz5Gm8Hw&index=12&list=RD8QLL2j8ZtxE

I don't know. They're so different to my ears.

Yes I know this is the most message board-y post of all time.

I feel like the later Soft Machine definitely gets more "Proggy," which is to say that to my ears, there's a definite shift from Fifth to Bundles and Softs.  Those latter records definitely have the jazz influence that you mention, but they're totally in the same genre as quintessential Yes and ELP.  I also think they're great and profoundly underrated.

I would also agree with there being a definite distinction between kraut rock and prog generally, but there's definitely some overlap in the venn diagram, and I'm thinking of a lot of the Guru Guru records would inhabit that liminal space between the two genres.

dave from knoxville

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2015, 01:55:44 PM »
Dave from Knoxville seems to be a deep prog fan--had some prog spotify playlist that is delightful. More, please, DfK.

Will do! And I stand by Traffic as a proggy band, at least.

fonpr

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2015, 07:20:04 PM »
I stand by Traffic as a proggy band, at least.
Please define "proggy."







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dave from knoxville

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Re: Prog Rock primers for FOTs
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2015, 05:38:39 PM »
I stand by Traffic as a proggy band, at least.
Please define "proggy."

Prog-like? Having properties of prog?






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