The Best/Worst Moments of last night's show

[Jason from Huntsville, AL]

M. Night Shyamalan's "No Refunds." Black water. Mad elves. 30 twists.

I was also glad he finally let persistent, tween troll Trevor have a little more air time. That was a lovely little train-wreck. It's been far too long since Tom has threatened to knock a child's block off.

[paul]

I really like the first Gravediggaz album. It's one of my favourite hip-hop LPs. It's way, way better than any of the Odd Future junk I've heard. The most recent thing I heard by Tyler sounded like bad Tricky.

(Yes, I know Tricky did an EP with Gravediggaz)

bad Tricky can sound like many different things. he's made more bad albums than he's made good ones.

anyway, i don't want to defend Odd Future too much, i've seen them a few times and i bought (and was disappointed by) Goblin, honestly i'm pretty burned out on them now and if they don't do something different soon i'm just going to stop caring. but there is a little bit more to them than just the horror stuff. nobody ever talks about the Jet Age Of Tomorrow albums, which are some pretty out there jazzy hip-hop. Mellowhype and Mike G's albums are generally a lot easier to take than Tyler or Earl's stuff. and there's even an instrumental track on Goblin which sounds like Carl Craig or Underground Resistance or other Detroit techno artists, and it's really awesome. but yeah all the ultra-offensive schtick is pretty tired.

i will say that instead of comparing them to ICP, i think Eminem is a much more valid comparison. everyone who isn't a juggalo knows that ICP is terrible, but at least Eminem had (and has) plenty of critical acclaim. not to mention actual pop hooks and songs that get played on the radio and tv all the time, which Odd Future doesn't have and likely never will. but Tyler's already to the point where he's complaining about being famous and crap, so i'm just really close to losing interest, just like i stopped caring about Eminem as soon as he started complaining about being famous on his second major-label album.

[Kris K]

M. Night Shyamalan's "No Refunds." Black water. Mad elves. 30 twists.

I was also glad he finally let persistent, tween troll Trevor have a little more air time. That was a lovely little train-wreck. It's been far too long since Tom has threatened to knock a child's block off.

Yeah, that kid was a troll. Tom's declaration that he was an all-time top-five dumb kid, and subsequent calling for his bronzing (Not to be given a medal) was hilarious.

Great show, an instant "clossic".

[Austin From NC]

M. Night Shyamalan's "No Refunds." Black water. Mad elves. 30 twists.

I was also glad he finally let persistent, tween troll Trevor have a little more air time. That was a lovely little train-wreck. It's been far too long since Tom has threatened to knock a child's block off.

Yeah, that kid was a troll. Tom's declaration that he was an all-time top-five dumb kid, and subsequent calling for his bronzing (Not to be given a medal) was hilarious.


Great show, an instant "clossic".

His real name is Sam. Our parents told him that he can't call into the show anymore though.

[Jason from Huntsville, AL]

His real name is Sam. Our parents told him that he can't call into the show anymore though.

Give Sam my best. With a few more years and some mad science training under his belt, he may make a worthy nemesis for Kid Jersey.

[Denim Gremlin]

maybe I'm sturring the pot here a bit but what exactly are Tom's and those of you who echo his hatred of odd future's real problems with them?

is it strictly a musical taste thing? if so, far enough, that's your bag. I'll shut up. I personally like a lot of their stuff even if you see them as some kind of reheated Gravediggaz. I always liked Gravediggaz too.

or is it an objection to their whole persona/lyrical content/antics? because honestly, I don't see how anyone who heaps so much praise on Blacks Lips and Jay Reatard and Ghostface has a leg to stand on in this argument. I can see why some people might not like them for that reason but if you're gonna thrown them in the trash because of that you might as well thrown in all of hip hop and the majority of punk rock as well.

[Tom Scharpling]

First and foremost, I think their music blows.

And I know what is offensive about a good portion of the music I like and I make my peace with it. I also admit that it's horribly fucked up sometimes and wrong. But I will know and admit what is offensive to me and that line is up to me to determine - can I listen to it despite how horrifying it is? The Frogs. GG Allin. Bad Brains. Black Lips. Wu Tang Clan. The Persuaders -  they're all responsible for moments that are out of my personal moral bounds. And that's on me to determine. But again, I own how horrifying they can be and I own my part in it as a listener.

There are a lot of people who are going out of their way to excuse Tyler/Odd Future's shittiness, claiming it's they're 'playing a character', bending over backwards to justify or minimize the shitty/inhuman/homophobic/mysoginist/nightmarish element to their lyrics just because they're young and exciting. I can't do that. I get the energy part of it, but again - I think their music sucks and isn't worth having to enter into whatever moral tap dance we all do to listen to the art we like, which is far too often made by horrible people or dumb people or good people who don't know better yet.

If you like them, good for you. But just OWN that they are incredibly offensive and horrible as Actual Humans. That's your business. But stop letting them off the hook for their crummy lyrics and worldview.

Tom.

[Denim Gremlin]

First and foremost, I think their music blows.

And I know what is offensive about a good portion of the music I like and I make my peace with it. I also admit that it's horribly fucked up sometimes and wrong. But I will know and admit what is offensive to me and that line is up to me to determine - can I listen to it despite how horrifying it is? The Frogs. GG Allin. Bad Brains. Black Lips. Wu Tang Clan. The Persuaders -  they're all responsible for moments that are out of my personal moral bounds. And that's on me to determine. But again, I own how horrifying they can be and I own my part in it as a listener.

There are a lot of people who are going out of their way to excuse Tyler/Odd Future's shittiness, claiming it's they're 'playing a character', bending over backwards to justify or minimize the shitty/inhuman/homophobic/mysoginist/nightmarish element to their lyrics just because they're young and exciting. I can't do that. I get the energy part of it, but again - I think their music sucks and isn't worth having to enter into whatever moral tap dance we all do to listen to the art we like, which is far too often made by horrible people or dumb people or good people who don't know better yet.

If you like them, good for you. But just OWN that they are incredibly offensive and horrible as Actual Humans. That's your business. But stop letting them off the hook for their crummy lyrics and worldview.

Tom.

thanks for replying.

I'm not letting them off the hook for anything personally, I totally own the fact that a lot of things I love are created by total creeps. I get the same mild revulsion in myself that I try to crush with my enjoyment of the music when I listen to Earl Sweatshirt that I get when I listen to a song like Slip It In or I find myself singing along to the chorus of Biscuits. I guess that's why I can deal with the morally questionable shit about them. I dig their music. I just don't see the point in trying to take these guys to task for it. In 6 months it'll be someone new causing controversy and I'd bet a lot of the people up in arms about Odd Future will happily run to the defense of this new group because they find them more personally relevant. If we're going to put them on trial we're going to have to put all popular music on trial too.

I think you hit on what seems to be the fundamental argument here, that probably won't ever be resolved, which is whether or not the music they're making is worth it. That's pretty much the point I hoped to make. This whole thing seems like a dead end street to me. It's all really going to come down to "I like the sound of this" vs. "I don't like the sound of this." 

also, I wanted to add that what I'm saying is not specifically directed at you or anything you said Tom. Keep on hating, not that you need my permission of course, It's one of the things we all love about you and the show. I regret putting your name in my first post because it probably seemed like I was calling you out or something. That wasn't my intention. What I'm saying is more of a reaction to what seems like a lot of inflated controversy and pointless backlash against them and my exhaustion with trying to defend why I like them other than the fact that I just do.

[mackro]

On this topic..

So, I have a CD reissue of this album by Peter Wyngarde, self-titled, originally released in 1970. He was well known on UK TV as a super spy celebrity or "shag monster", and so he was offered to do whatever he wanted on his requisite solo album for which the label showered him with money.



About two or three tracks in is a song called "Rape". This song is likely one of the most universally offensive songs ever recorded and released.  If the clumsy grunting of the word "RRRRAPE!" isn't enough to turn you away at the start, all the various ethnic stereotypes that are permutated into each a "different type of rape" will certainly do it.  I think Wyngarde ends up insulting the entire world of civilization in about 2 minutes.

When people talk about Guilty Pleasures, the phrase is diluted into "stuff that I used to like a lot when I was younger, teehee".  True guilty pleasures are supposed to keep you up at night, making you wonder why liking the thing *should* haunt you for liking it.

This song "Rape" is my trophy guilty pleasure. The subject matter is obviously awful. But I love this song because the arrangements, production, playing, and shameless 'continentale' delivery is just mind blowing and fantastic.  The latter rarely excuses the former. But in this case it does.

This is all to say that I completely understand what Tom was just saying above about how we each have the freedom to determine where to draw The Line, and it's up to each of us to live with those consequences.  However, it's a perfect segue into a pet peeve of mine, which is the dilution of the phrase "Guilty Pleasure." And I think it definitely applies to the defenders of Odd Future, which most fans perhaps not realizing it.

[mackro]

Speaking of the best and the worst, this previous show is a classic for featuring Lisa and Andy alone.

But the best/worst moment was certainly Andy's story about The Pool.

[Trembling Eagle]

I really liked that Tom said "Mixed Martial Artist".

my lasting contribution to the show














j/k


or am I

[JBillington]

I had never really heard of Tyler until the NME gave him a hard sell a couple of weeks ago. I don't buy the magazine any more, obviously, as I'm 20 years too old for it and it's garbage. But I am old enough to remember the NME taking Happy Mondays to task for their homophobia, and Morrissey for his dodgy lyrics about racial integration. Hip-hop acts were also regularly quizzed about the homophobia and sexism in their lyrics, although unlike white indie-rock acts, they didnt rely on NME for their coverage, and so they generally seemed less bothered.

I remember a turning point around the time of Eminem. Steven Wells, the late, great journo who had written the Happy Mondays piece, wrote a piece on Eminem, dismissing the homophobia as 'just a larf, innit'. He was being a little sarcastic, but it still struck me as letting him off the hook.

I don't think that music should be parsed through some kind of PC machine to ensure it is inoffensive, but having a go at women or gays is the laziest, dumbest form of controv-seeking. If nothing else, the uniform response from right thinking people to Tyler's comments should be 'Grow the fuck up'.

[masterofsparks]

On this topic..

So, I have a CD reissue of this album by Peter Wyngarde, self-titled, originally released in 1970. He was well known on UK TV as a super spy celebrity or "shag monster", and so he was offered to do whatever he wanted on his requisite solo album for which the label showered him with money.



About two or three tracks in is a song called "Rape". This song is likely one of the most universally offensive songs ever recorded and released.  If the clumsy grunting of the word "RRRRAPE!" isn't enough to turn you away at the start, all the various ethnic stereotypes that are permutated into each a "different type of rape" will certainly do it.  I think Wyngarde ends up insulting the entire world of civilization in about 2 minutes.

When people talk about Guilty Pleasures, the phrase is diluted into "stuff that I used to like a lot when I was younger, teehee".  True guilty pleasures are supposed to keep you up at night, making you wonder why liking the thing *should* haunt you for liking it.

This song "Rape" is my trophy guilty pleasure. The subject matter is obviously awful. But I love this song because the arrangements, production, playing, and shameless 'continentale' delivery is just mind blowing and fantastic.  The latter rarely excuses the former. But in this case it does.

This is all to say that I completely understand what Tom was just saying above about how we each have the freedom to determine where to draw The Line, and it's up to each of us to live with those consequences.  However, it's a perfect segue into a pet peeve of mine, which is the dilution of the phrase "Guilty Pleasure." And I think it definitely applies to the defenders of Odd Future, which most fans perhaps not realizing it.

I haven't heard the Peter Wyngarde album, but your story about it reminds me of the Junior Kimbrough song "You Better Run," which is something like a Sam Peckinpah story set to music. It's about a man who tells a woman that he's going to rape her but the song ends with her telling him "You don't have to rape me because I love you." I like Junior Kimbrough's music, but I can remember being literally shocked the first time I listened to that song, and I'm someone who enjoys The Dwarves, so I think I'm pretty tough to shock. And it's not like he was burning up the pop charts or anything, but I don't remember any sort of outcry against the song, which I found strange.

[Spike]

M. Night Shamalamadingdong. Yeah, OK.

[Sarah]

Mackro, how is "Hippie and the Skinhead"?